Jetlag is a bitch. I didn’t feel it heading to Canada but coming back to Australia I’m feeling it. So far I haven’t managed to sleep past 5:30 AM yet. In honour of my tired state I offer up a mixed bag blog post today…

I was walking the downtown streets of Brisbane city today for the first time since getting back to Australia. I was heading down Adelaide St, passing the many bus shelters and I noticed the ads where moving. Yep they have installed sliding ads so each bus shelter rotates between two ads rather than just a static single ad. The movement tends to catch your eye too. Smart move advertising company but when did little Brisbane get so cosmo.

This one for all those Australian young entrepreneurs out there - Chris Khoo, one of the guys that manages YNOT in Brisbane (that’s Young Network Of enTrepreneurs) has moved the forums to their own domain at www.youngentrepreneur.com.au. Check it out for some good local Aussie business chat.

The Bnoopy Blog has been updated with an interesting article about The Long Tail Effect

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I was just reading a post about click fraud at the Young Entrepreneur forums. It mentioned some pretty nasty things your competitors could be doing to you if you use pay per click (PPC) services such as Google Adwords.

Statements like this are an example of a possible method that your competitors could be taking advantage of your PPC advertising budget.

I know of SEO companies who have scripts that will click on their clients competitors Adword ads until the competitors have hit their daily max spending limit. They do this to the ads above their clients ad, and once the competitors maximum spending budget is reached, Google removes the competitors ads, and the clients ad is at the top, and the program stops.

I myself use Google to bring in some traffic but I’ve never given too much thought to fraud since I hoped (perhaps naively) that Google and the other PPC providers kept on top of fraudsters. They say (that’s the word on the street, dawg) that Google has some fairly sound technology behind their programs which offer good protection.

The key thing is to be smart when using PPC. You need to be tracking your campaigns and monitoring results carefully. You should notice some indicators fairly quickly if you are a victim of fraud. You can’t just turn Google PPC on, throw some money at it and hope that you get more sales as a result. It takes time and maybe you should even consider hiring an expert or having a dedicated staff member manage your campaign, especially if you don’t know your CTs from your CT%.

If you can’t afford to hire specialists and don’t have the staff to do it for you, then do like most of us small business folk do, get educated so you can maintain your own campaign. A good place to start is the Google Adwords FAQ. You might also try third party sites such as Pay Per Click Universe.

Yaro Starak
BetterEdit Manager

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An interesting development here in Toronto regarding poster laws. As I have mentioned previously postering in Toronto is pretty rampant and you can basically stick a poster on any telephone pole in the city and well, everyone does! It’s pretty crazy how many posters are out there. The same certainly can’t be said for other cities in the world. In my hometown Brisbane if you stick up posters on public property chances are the city council will fine you so it’s not a wide spread practice.

It appears that Toronto is heading the same way as the city council has been slowly debating and now implementing new poster laws to restrict the amount and type of posters allowed. Currently the plan looks to be restricting postering to approximately 2% of the total telephone poles in Toronto. As you would expect there has been an uproar against the plans and a campaign was launched to fight the polices. Most of the complaints are about restricting freedom of speech and making it so only corporate business can afford to advertise (referring to billboards, buses and other outdoor advertising options).

I find this an interesting development because of my relationship and past contacts with some of the postering businesses in Toronto. If this law was passed and enforced fiercely I can see poster businesses really hurting.

Personally I do think something needs to be done to curb the somewhat ruthless and excessive postering going on in downtown Toronto but the current proposals do not seem adequate. You can read what some of the local GTA bloggers are saying too.

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A few years back I was running a little ecommerce service as part of my Magic: The Gathering trading card site MTGParadise.com. Back when I was in the thick of things playing the game I used to win a lot of cards and did a hell of a lot of trading and selling at every tournament. More often I enjoyed the trading and selling more than the tournament itself.

Once my site became huge and I realised that there really wasn’t a good online card shop for Australians I decided to try and be that card shop. I had the audience and that’s usually the hard part. I managed to locate some wholesalers and went to work creating what I called MTGParadise Mail Order. I listed a lot of my personal collection which I had built up over the years from winning, buying and selling. I also listed sealed new product which was sold in boxes and booster packs which I located from the wholesalers. Because I had no wish to expose myself to too much stock investment I would almost “drop ship” before drop shipping became common for the public to do, in the sense that I would buy sealed product as sales came through rather than maintain a new stock inventory. Unfortunately it wasn’t real drop shipping since I had to still order the products, have them shipped to me, and then ship them out to the client which slowed things down.

The service did reasonably well. It was a horribly manual process because I would have to update card lists and inventory counts all by hand and I spent a lot of time running to the post office. I didn’t plan the service to be a proper business so I wasn’t considering systematising my inventory and having an online shopping cart like overseas card stores (which I would for sure do now, manual updates are a pain!). Another problem was that card selling has tiny margins and if it wasn’t for the fact that I managed to win cards I don’t think I would have made much profit. I did enjoy it for the most part though so I kept it going for a good year or so while studying at university.

One day I got a query from a person in Thailand wanting to buy boxes of cards. The profit wouldn’t be much because of the aforementioned tiny margins, but it would be significant enough that I was very keen to get his business.

He wanted to pay with credit card.

I asked my father about taking credit cards since he did for his business. My dad offered use of his “click-clack” manual credit card processor for the order. The customer emailed his credit card number and details and we checked the number against the ‘reported stolen’ list and it was fine. I processed the order, shipped the cards and was pleased with my first big sale.

Over the next few months I continued to have increasingly significant orders from this client which I carefully processed through my father’s credit card processor. Since I was doing such a regular amount I decided to get my own merchant account and after some looking around a bank was willing to provide me with the account. I then started to process orders through my own account.

One day many months after the first Thailand order I got a call from my father’s wife about a chargeback that had been initiated on the first credit card order I had processed from this customer in Thailand. I was worried, but not too worried because I thought that since we had verified the card for every purchase and it checked out that it just must be a mistake. I emailed the client and he told me it was just a mistake at his end so I relaxed a bit.

Unfortunately it wasn’t, the customer was a credit card fraudster and I had been very stupid. Over the next few weeks I came to grips with the fact that many thousands of dollars of sales would be ‘bouncing’. Initially I was angry with the banks that they didn’t offer more protection but as I slowly investigated the whole merchant account system I realised that the merchant is usually always the one taking the risk and that when no signature from the customer is present, which for web based orders is not really feasible, then the customer has all the power. I also read over the communications from the months of dealing with this client and realised that there were plenty of warning signs that I just refused to take notice of. I was caught up in the ‘business’ of it all and being very naive.

It was a lesson learnt. I learnt about credit card fraud, merchant accounts and the risk involved with selling over the Internet. I learnt to be more cautious and not jump with eagerness at every significant order that comes through. Call me paranoid, but it’s from experience. Note that I am complaining from the point of view of a merchant but there are instances where the customer has problems too.

When I then went on to setup credit card payment options for my clients at BetterEdit.com I was very careful. By this time I had discovered paypal and later I would also learn about Paymate, an Australian version of Paypal. These services were reasonably good solutions to provide online payment options and to this day BetterEdit processes many transactions online through them.

I have not had one problem with credit card fraud for any Betteredit essay editing service order (touch wood) but on many occasions I have been contacted by the staff at Paymate regarding suspect orders. After my experiences I really appreciate the extra layer of protection provided by Paymate. They protect you before an order is processed and offer personalised protection. As an Australian running an Australian based business I can recommend Paymate as one of the safest ways to accept credit cards and I don’t mind paying the fees for that extra level of security. Sure there are features I’d like to see and things I’d like changed at Paymate, but for the moment they offer the best option available.

I would also like to say I feel secure with Paypal but to be honest I do not. I’ve heard a lot of horror stories from other Paypal users. I’ve read through the chargeback policies at Paypal and while they do have a ‘department’ to deal with fraud, they make every effort to argue the case on behalf of their sellers and have an ‘industry leading’ low fraud rate I don’t feel 100% confident. They seem very reactive rather than proactive when dealing with credit card fraud. Their system doesn’t talk much about how they protect you from first taking fraudulent credit card orders, rather they help you to argue your case after a chargeback occurs. I know from experience that for online orders the merchant has little hope because the credit card company almost always is in favour of the cardholder.

The Paypal website seems designed to make it difficult to contact a person. I’ve tried to contact them over the phone and spent an annoyingly long time waiting and trying to navigate a phone system clearly designed so they don’t have to employ too many phone staff. Their web support is much the same. Their whole system tries to avoid providing any personal support. They point you to look for an answer online via their FAQs which is great for the easy questions but often leads to a wild goose chase if you want to find answer to your very particular question. Even just timely and helpful customer service email support would be good but I always seem to find myself waiting a few days for a response that only half answers my question. Paymate on the other hand has a simple ‘Contact’ link which pops up an email that goes direct to a real live person that responds within 24 hours with a good answer. What more could you ask for.

All the problems at Paypal seem symptomatic of a business that got too big too quickly and I hope over time their customer support will improve as it ‘catches up’. All in all though I should note that Paypal has been good for my business and since it is the market leader in online payment processing it will most likely remain as a payment option at BetterEdit.com.

Yaro Starak
BetterEdit Manager

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In my first brief history post I gave a very condensed history of how I originally got the idea for my business and then took the steps to implement it. A few months after starting the business I left it alone to stagnate for a year or two while I did some personal growth things like finish university, travel to Tasmania and break up with a girlfriend. When I finally came back to my business I was starting with the infrastructure in place, a few thousand dollars in savings and a desire (or lack of) to never get a full time day job. I should also point out that most of my friends where in full time day jobs just out of university and earning nice graduate salaries. My dad was very suggestive that I get a normal job first, get some experience and then maybe do my own thing. Alas, my desire to control my own timetable dictated that I didn’t want to be ANYWHERE before 9am, especially working for someone else, so I decided working on BetterEdit was worth a shot for at least the freedom of choice it allowed me regarding my working hours. Let’s not forget I totally believed in the idea as well, so I had to give it a proper shot.

The government lends a hand

One day I was driving in the car with my dad and I was talking about how I knew if I could just get the word out there my business would be successful. If I had more money for advertising I could try many different things. My dad started talking about a friend of his that was getting paid to write a book. I asked my dad if I could speak to this guy. One phone call later and I had learnt about the New Enterprise Incentives Scheme (NEIS) program. The NEIS program is a government funded scheme that pays ‘life support’ income to you every two weeks for a year while you run your business. I went to an information session, and two months later, having written a proper business plan, fronted at a panel interview and having been assigned a nice business mentor I was on the scheme for a year. I received just under $200 per week, which technically I was supposed to use to support me whilst I spent time running my business, but since I was still living at home with minimal expenses I could use the money towards marketing BetterEdit.com. If you are an Australian and you would like to learn more about the NEIS program try googling for it. If you are not an Australian I suggest you hunt around for similar business start-up grants or sponsorship programs as they can provide much needed cash and business mentoring.

The NEIS program did two things for me, it gave me a little cashflow to play with and more importantly, it psychologically confirmed that I was running my business full time and taking it seriously. I can’t stress how important that second point was for me. I now had justification to work full time towards making my business successful. I was getting paid to do it. With a new found determination I went to work to get my business off the ground.

Marketing an online business

How do you market an online proofreading and editing business? This is a tough question. I’m still not sure today how best to do this but back a few years ago I had tested only one method, putting up posters at university campuses. I knew this worked to a degree, but being a good business student I had a lot more ideas to try, and try I did!

Before I go on and tell you what I did that worked and what I tried that didn’t I should point out that everything I did was within my own means. The main factor that dictates success for a business is the entrepreneur behind the business. I chose methods of marketing that fit my personality, which I was prepared to try. Some more outgoing people may consider more outlandish publicity stunts. You can read Richard Branson’s autobiography for some good examples of ballsy things a young entrepreneur can do.

Buying ads in print magazines

Over the next twelve months I tried the following methods to advertise (this is not in sequential order by the way - it’s all a bit of a blur now):

I collected all the magazines at the newsagent that targeted writers. There weren’t many but I figured this would be a good way to reach the author/writer market all around the world. I collected all the ad rates for each magazine. Unfortunately it was just too expensive to do a traditional advertisement but a few magazines had classified sections which where under $100 to advertise in so I tested this method. One American magazine I put in for three issues, two others for one issue. The result, not one client initially, but fast forward about six months and I got one query. Not a good start.

I decided to focus only on the student market and would leave the author and business editing markets for a while.

I came across a business in Australia that specialised in advertising in campus newspapers. They acted as an agent for a bunch of the leading student produced publications at the biggest universities around Australia. I decided to spend up big on this one which was a mistake. I should have tested smaller. I can’t remember how much was spent but around $1000-$2000 to target a lot of campuses. I can’t remember getting one client from this method but my tracking referrals wasn’t as good back then. Needless to say the ROI was poor. I came to the conclusion that the people that read student papers were not my market. I don’t think international students struggling with English will pick up a campus magazine. More often these publications serve as an outlet for budding journalists and activists to have a rant about whatever issue was pissing them off at the time. Political wannabes, union members and social activists were reading these publications, certainly not my target market.

University student clubs and societies

I decided that not only was I going to target students, it was international students that really were my primary marketplace. The niche was getting smaller.

How do you reach international students? I thought international student clubs and societies, of which there are many at every university, were worth trying. You’d think it would be easy to sponsor clubs and societies at universities. They always seem to be running an event so I expected them to be eager to contact me after I tempted them with the sponsorship carrot. It wasn’t the case though. Initially I hit resistance from student unions to even just get the contact details for clubs and when I finally did locate email addresses or leave notes in pigeon holes the response was poor. It turned out that the small clubs were so disorganised that they could never get their act together to work with me and the big clubs were so professional I had to spend $500 to get even the tiniest amount of exposure.

I spent $500 in cash and prize sponsorship to sponsor a huge talent competition run by a group of Taiwanese clubs. This let me run a PowerPoint slide along with the other sponsors at the event. My slide was shown about every ten minutes for about ten seconds during the whole show on two large projectors. My banner was also listed as a sponsor of the event in the event timetable brochure. The net result: three queries and one job. Again this was very bad ROI.

During this time I also arranged to have little ads in email newsletters sent to various clubs and had flyers distributed in welcome bags during orientation week. Neither of these methods proved very fruitful.

Free publicity using press releases

This is a sample of the initiatives I tried that in my mind failed. I had more success in terms of ROI when I managed to get some free publicity in a local newspaper and in a small pocketsized Internet magazine. I was actually surprised at how easy it was to arrange and it only cost me time.

As I wrote about in my first brief history post, Geoff Cook used his story as a tool for free publicity. A young person running an Internet business from his dormroom at Harvard during the dotcom boom was something interesting and helped him get unbelievable free coverage that literally pushed the awareness of his business to a global scale. I didn’t expect that, but I could certainly leverage my age as a story.

I had recently made it to the top 100 finalist round of a fairly well known youth business plan competition called the Nescafe BigBreak. Whilst I didn’t get to the winners stage where I could compete for cash, I thought it was a good selling point and something I could use for publicity. I wrote out a small press release highlighting my age, that I was a young person starting an Internet business and that I had recently been a finalist in a national youth business competition. I tried to make it as easy as I could for a journalist to use my story and emailed off three different sized press releases and some media captures of my business logo and website. I sent it off to the editors and journalists of my local papers and Internet related magazines. Two responded positively and I got a feature article in the North West News and NetGuide magazine.

Posters have always provided the best ROI

During the time I experimented with different marketing methods I never stopped putting out posters every week. I made sure that each campus had a fresh run of posters at least every three weeks (I planned for every two but I got lazy). Most of the jobs were coming from posters or repeat clients that had either heard from a friend that had used our service or seen a poster. Since postering cost me about $0.04 a poster and a little labour and time, it was providing much better ROI than any other method I tried. Whilst walking around campuses putting up posters was becoming very tiring and I dreamed of the day I could hire someone to do it for me, it was very good for me physically too. The exercise and opportunity to get away from the computer and be outdoors was refreshing my mind. Often I came up with more ideas while walking around a campus. The exercise and ‘meditation’ of doing something repetitive and mundane was helping me be more productive and ultimately helping my business.

Today I continue to experiment with many different promotional methods and in particular have started to pick up my online marketing methods. I post in forums and newsgroups. I write press releases and work on my website copy, link exchanges and SEO. I experiment and use trial and error mixed with intuition. It’s ongoing process that will continue as long as my business exists. Even this blog is a promotional tool.

If you want to read more about my current day-to-day marketing efforts (I encourage you to learn from my mistakes) then please bookmark my blog.

Yaro Starak
BetterEdit Manager

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I headed back to U of T today to finish the job. After finally visiting every corner of the campus it’s pretty clear; this is the worst campus in Toronto for postering. There are a few hot spot buildings with a reasonable coverage of boards, but because this campus is so far apart it takes forever to get the whole place done. The main places to poster are the telephone poles that line the streets but the competition is so fierce for this poster real estate you’re lucky if you last more than a day. With the weather being rainy and snowy I figured out door postering is probably not going to be the most cost effective option given the minimal time a poster stays live. I tried a few telephone poles and I will see what happens when I return in two weeks. Perhaps the amount of exposure and quality of the traffic might make up for the minimal time. Then again it started to rain really heavily later that night so it was probably a waste of time.

During my travels today I also investigated a few buildings that I postered just 24 hours ago. As with any large university, a few of the board locations are very popular and some of my posters were already covered. However when I entered the IT building I noticed that my posters had all but disappeared from where I placed them just yesterday afternoon. Upon further investigation I noticed another poster, a hot pink poster, advertising proofreading services. It appeared to be an individual targeting thesis and dissertation writers claiming 25 years experience. I started seeing a pattern – where my posters used to be, this other proofreader’s posters started to appear. I even found one hot pink poster directly covering my yellow poster. Now I’m all for competition, but to blatantly remove or cover over a competitor’s poster is just rude! Yes, okay, this is business and it’s a dog eat dog world out there, but this I took some offence at on a moral level. The consumer should be allowed to be informed of both our services and then make a choice based on price and quality. This way the better business survives. I went around and replaced what I was missing but I was extra careful not to remove or cover the other proofreader’s posters. I was making a statement – I won’t do what you did and I’m going to keep coming back and putting up my posters regardless of what you do.

Another small job from one of our Asian regulars came through today and I’m still in negotiation on a large (about $1500) job from a repeat business client that I expect to be finalised by the end of this month. Edward Chalmers finished postering two of the big Brisbane campuses which I asked him to do for me because they are heading into summer semester finals in Australia now. One day I hope to have a postering network large enough to reach all around Australia but for at this point I can only afford to focus on Brisbane.

This weekend I plan to do some accounting work – yes that’s another hat I wear. I use MYOB to manage my day to day business activities which for those not from Australia, is a fairly rudimentary bookkeeping software with some reasonable reporting tools. I also have a proper bookkeeper come in once a month or so to check my work and reconcile my transactions. Plus of course I have an accountant once a year do my return. At the moment I am still a sole trader but I plan to incorporate next year when I finally have some assets built up worth protecting.

Finally just a couple of links I want to plug. Most people that read my blog will know these but just in case these two forums I visit often as they are full of like minded young entrepreneurs like me! Check them out if you like business talk.

Young Entrepreneur Forums - http://youngentrepreneur.com/forum

Young Network of Entrepreneurs Forums - http://ynot.thecouch.com.au/forum

Yaro Starak
BetterEdit Manager

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Toronto in winter, it’s not a happy weather kind of place. Today it just rained, even poured and crashed a little lighting, but nothing like back in Australia. We do storms big in Australia. Just this morning I learnt that the milk here is often fortified with additional vitamin D so as to combat the lack of sun during winter. Canadian bodies apparently store vitamin D during summer, much like a squirrel stores nuts in preparation for the cold, according to my uncle at least. I’m a bit worried my Australian body, being used to sun every day, may not quite be familiar with this storing concept and just assume there will be a new dosage everyday as there would be in Brisbane. Oh well.

Anyway, I digress.

Today was a good day for BetterEdit, building on what has been a great week. A couple of theses, a returning business client and a new Canadian business client along with the usual small jobs from the regulars is looking to bring revenues for January way above last January’s. Although since we only did a handful of jobs last January it is not hard to beat the total.

I headed to U of T again today to continue what I poorly started on Monday. I spent the first half of the trip scouting out a bunch of buildings on the far east of the campus and managed to learn that I shouldn’t bother coming back as there were not many posterboards. The problem with these older universities is that the ancient buildings were often not built with posters in mind. They are magnificent architecturally, but I’m not impressed with their consideration for businesses looking to advertise to their students. Of course it wasn’t a fruitless start because I can now skip this section of the campus in future and improve my time efficiency. It is a learning process after all.

Eventually I did find some buildings with reasonable postering boards, but U of T is looking to be the worst campus of the three I have done so far in Toronto. I’ll find out tomorrow when I go back for the THIRD time and finish the job. (Stupid big spread out campus.)U of T is covered in telephone poles, outdoor poster-poles and similar outdoor opportunities to poster and plenty of businesses already take advantage of them. With the weather like it was today though there certainly was no point in placing a poster outside.

On my way out I grabbed a copy of the five or so local university newspapers and magazine style publications. I plan to contact these papers and try and drum up some publicity for BetterEdit entering the Canadian market. I’m thinking of offering an angle to the journalists about essay editing and writing businesses and whether students should be allowed to use them. A bit of controversy is always good for exposure, but as always I stand by our disclaimer and have full confidence of the legitimacy and integrity of our service.

If you have a chance, check out this article about the same business that refused to take our posters around campus because they also run an essay writing/editing service. This is what I mean by controversy!

Yaro Starak
BetterEdit Manager

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I didn’t get a lot of sleep last night because a few complicated editing quotes came through late afternoon Brisbane time, which was early morning here in Toronto, Canada. I’ve been staying up till about 2am each day so I can service the Australian market without any major time differences. So far it’s working reasonably well. The quotes however required a bit of coordination with editors and some calculations which stimulated my brain a bit too much so I had trouble sleeping.

Yesterday I headed to the University of Toronto where I met up with a friend who showed me the more popular student postering locations on the campus. We ended up talking for a while and by the time we finished it was already getting late and I had only barely started to poster. I hit the main library and a few more buildings but with darkness falling and the temperature dropping way below 0 I decided the rest of U of T can wait until another day. It really is a huge campus, I think I have at least another 3 hours ahead of me.

Today I spent inside and did a little research about postering services. Unlike Australia, North America has a reasonably established postering distribution network and there are several business that offer postering services. I discovered the first company, City Postering, via a poster at UBC in Vancouver. I took the number then and later in Toronto discovered the same business, this time with a website as well. I read up and they looked like the ideal business to work with to expand in Canada and North America since they cover the USA, at least according to their website.

An aside - my business idea, http://www.student-marketing.com.au, is pretty much exactly the same as these postering services in the USA, which got me thinking about that business again. I did some more searching and could not find a similar campus postering service in Australia (of course I would use it for BetterEdit.com if there were). I’m now even more keen to launch this service, starting in Brisbane, when I return to Australia. The company that I am going to use, On Campus Promotions http://ocp.campus.net/, have been postering for something like 25 years and have established a huge network of over 100 employees, some that poster full time for a job. The business acts as a middle man for poster distribution and the reps do all the postering. They have a very impressive network which makes me confident I could establish something similar for Australia. - End aside.

I contacted CityPostering.com but unfortunately because they run an essay writing and editing service they deemed BetterEdit a competitor so refused to distribute our posters. I contacted a few more with none providing exactly what I wanted, campus postering, and then after some more net searching I stumbled across on campus solutions and gave them a call. The lady I spoke to was very friendly and while they don’t have a comprehensive network in Canada they should be able to help with the two big areas, Toronto and British Columbia, which will be a good start. They also have excellent penetration in the USA so hopefully if things go well I can stay with this company and form a beneficial relationship.

It sure isn’t easy to find a cheap and effective method of advertising to reach the student market. If anyone has an idea, don’t be shy, tell me!

Yaro Starak
BetterEdit Manager

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The winter university semester started this week in Canada and BetterEdit has started along with it. This past week we began aggressively advertising at two of the three large university campuses located in the GTA – the Greater Toronto Area. Toronto is the largest city in Canada, some refer to it as little New York because the cities are similar in demographic diversity.

This week I personally started poster campaigns at Ryerson University in downtown Toronto and York University Keele campus. Ryerson is similar in style to a highschool, with lockers located throughout. It’s not a beautiful campus but that’s because it’s in downtown Toronto in buildings. York University however is more like your traditional Australian large university with a stand alone campus. York is huge. It took nearly three hours to poster the place and I didn’t get to every building.

We have already welcomed some new clients as a result of these two campaigns and as this is the first week of semester things look good for a successful entry into these markets. Whilst we already have Canadian clients this will be the first prolonged advertising campaign maintained here so hopefully BetterEdit.com will become more well known in this area.

Next week I will be heading to the University of Toronto, the oldest and most prestigious university in Toronto.

For those interested you can learn more about Ryerson University and York University by following these links:

http://www.ryerson.ca

http://www.yorku.ca

Yaro Starak
BetterEdit.com Manager

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